Additional content:
John 10:34 is quoting from the Psalms 82:6. In the Greek Septuagint
translation of that verse the word theoí (gods) is used for the
translation of Elohim, and thus excluding (I think) the possible
alternate meanings of 'angels', 'godlike beings', and 'judges'. For the
Hebrew text of Psalms 82:L26 and an Orthodox Jewish Chabad Hasidic (and thus non-Christian) translation along with it see https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16303/jewish/Chapter-82.htm .
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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35
Refuting the Alleged Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection
by truth_b_known inin the past few months there have been a few debates on this site over alleged evidence of the resurrection of jesus.
this can be a hot topic as most would agree that without the resurrection of jesus there would be no christianity.
i am not so sure of that, but i am more sure that dr. gary habermas' minimal facts approach to the resurrection has no evidentiary basis.. here is a 22 minute video on the topic.
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Refuting the Alleged Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection
by truth_b_known inin the past few months there have been a few debates on this site over alleged evidence of the resurrection of jesus.
this can be a hot topic as most would agree that without the resurrection of jesus there would be no christianity.
i am not so sure of that, but i am more sure that dr. gary habermas' minimal facts approach to the resurrection has no evidentiary basis.. here is a 22 minute video on the topic.
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Disillusioned JW
Correection: I should have said the following. "Likewise the Hebrew word Elohim (which has a range of meanings, including 'God', 'god', 'gods', 'angels', 'godlike beings', and 'judges') sometimes becomes theoí/theoús (gods) in the Greek text (as in John 10:34-35) [see also the annotation to John 10:34 in the NAB 1991 edition of Bible, a Catholic Bible], though most of the time it becomes theos (God/god)."
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Where did Christendom go? They HATED our bible in 1950...just read...
by oompa inthe articles on the jw-cd which only go back to 1950 where we fought back the attacks.
i do not understand why they did not continue to blast our bible since it is such a fraud....down south in usa churches teach members how to refute dubs at their door.....but why did they stop blasting the nwt?
it is sooooooo easy to show a dub there is a bunch of made up crap in it.....i may have to help my local chruches.....if you need more info about the horrible fraud parts, feel free to pm me.........................oompa......even elders dont know
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Disillusioned JW
Technically the NAB didn't exist prior to 1970, at least the name of "New American Bible' (NAB) did not exist until 1970. [But maybe the books of 1 Samuel to 2 Maccabees, copyright 1969, were of the NAB.] But the 1970 NAB was based upon (stemmed from) the editions of 1941 and 1969 by the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine and those editions are thus known as the Confraternity Bible and the "New Catholic Edition". [I used to those early editions (most of which were published as bound with books of the Bible in the Challoner-Douay-Rheims version translation in regards to books not yet translated by the Confraternity, in order to provide a complete Bible.] See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confraternity_Bible and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_American_Bible . [I own the 1986 revision of the NAB, but I no longer own any other editions of the NAB nor any editions of the Confraternity Bible (New Catholic Edition).]
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Refuting the Alleged Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection
by truth_b_known inin the past few months there have been a few debates on this site over alleged evidence of the resurrection of jesus.
this can be a hot topic as most would agree that without the resurrection of jesus there would be no christianity.
i am not so sure of that, but i am more sure that dr. gary habermas' minimal facts approach to the resurrection has no evidentiary basis.. here is a 22 minute video on the topic.
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Disillusioned JW
Hi pistolpete, I agree with all or nearly all of what you posted on the other topic thread, about Paul's gospel being a different gospel. I had learned of much of that years ago. From the years of about 2000 - about 2009 (or possibly until later than 2009) I read the entire Bible (including the apocrypha), and studied the Bible, using only non-JW translations. I also studied with the aid of commentaries of 'Christendom', and evangelical books which are critical of WT teachings, and web pages promoting ex-Christian ideas. I also read and studied some of Bart Ehrman's books (I checked them out from the library). I thus knew of Paul speaking of what he called "my Gospel". What I didn't know however is that NWT instead uses the wording of "the good news I declare".
You posts at https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6221415232569344/my-gospel make an excellent case for showing that prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE that Paul's version of Christianity competed with, and was significantly different from, the Christianity (or messianic Judaism) of the Torah keeping Jewish believers in Jesus.
Biblical scholars know there were Torah keeping Jews known as Nazarenes and those known as Ebionites who considered themselves followers of Jesus (but I am not sure if Jesus really existed as a historical person), but who also considered Paul/Saul as a false teacher and a corrupter of the teachings of Jesus the Nazarene.
I read that the Torah keeping Jews who accepted Jesus (in other words, those of the circumcision faction of Jesus' followers) nearly eventually out competed Paul's sect. But, after Jerusalem (which was the base of operations of Torah keeping followers of Jesus) fell in 70 CE and after if fell again after the defeat of the Bar Kokhba Revolt in Judea in 135 CE, the sect founded by Paul became the doctrinal victors of the early Jesus movement.
A number of atheists teaching the Christ myth theory (which I largely accept) say that the letters of Paul are the most reliable sources for determining the earliest teachings of Christianity, but I think that is primarily only the case for the Pauline sect of Christianity. I think it reveals little of the non-Pauline Torah keeping version of messianism based in belief in Jesus the Nazarene. I think the Gospels, the letter of the Hebrews, and possibly even the book of Revelation are much better sources for determining what the Torah keeping non-Pauline believers in Jesus (and gentile Greek speaking Proselytes [who at least kept the Noahide Laws] to such) believed in.
Regarding Revelation being a possible witness to non-Pauline Torah keeping Jewish believers in Jesus, see Revelation 14:12.
I suspect that most of the pre-Pauline believers in Jesus were Greek speaking (instead of predominately Hebrew or Aramaic speaking) believers in Jesus. That is partly because that which are extant of what are called the Gospel of the Hebrews, the Gospel of the Nazarenes, and the Gospel of the Ebionites are in Greek. [But all of the extant copies of these might be translations from Hebrew into Greek, or possibly even concoctions by Greek church 'fathers'.] Another reason is that a number of Christian ideas in the NT seem to be dependent upon the wording of the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew scriptures.
The wording of the Septuagint in some verses allows for a larger range of interpretation of the scriptures than does the wording of the Hebrew text, and as a result allows more for some uniquely Christian interpretations of the pre-Christian Jewish scriptures. For one example, the name YHWH (Yahweh/Jehovah) becomes Kyrios (Lord) in the Greek text. Likewise the Hebrew word Elohim (which has a range of meanings, including 'angels') becomes theoús (gods) in the Greek text.
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Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??
by Witness 007 inso imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.
true pioneer!
👍 love ❤️ .
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Disillusioned JW
Does the "Aid to bible understanding" really say that the "607 b.c.e 1914 was impossible to prove"? I didn't notice that when I read about 607 B.C.E in the Aid book, though I did notice that the book tried to refute the views of the scholars who said 586/587 B.C.E./B.C. instead.
Though Ray Franz wrote a considerable part of the Aid book, I don't think he wrote the whole book.
Imagine what the WT teachings and its religion would be today if Raymond Franz had remained on the governing body for 20 more years than he did, and if he had become the primary one of the governing body.
Foolednomore, it is atypical that the WT religion doesn't highly esteem it old literature. Most religions esteem their old literature. The Jewish religion for example still reads a version of the Hebrew holy Scriptures (Tanakh) for example. The SDA still publish editions of Ellen G. White's books, despite the SDA religion having been founded before the WT religion.
Since a number of people are saying how Raymond's book called Crisis of Conscience opened their figurative eyes about the nature of the WT organization, maybe I should check out that book from the library and give it another look, a much more thorough reading.
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Jw's sending me invites and letters, I don't get it.
by Foolednomore infirst off, i have made it real clear with jw's my thoughts on being a jw.
i'm out, there is no coming back.. second, i'm on their " do not call list" .. so why now all of a sudden my mailbox is getting bombed 💣 by their memorial invites and letters?.
don't they follow their do not call list?
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Disillusioned JW
Its weird that they are trying so much to bring you back to the org. They are acting like corporations repeatedly sending advertisements to people.
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Refuting the Alleged Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection
by truth_b_known inin the past few months there have been a few debates on this site over alleged evidence of the resurrection of jesus.
this can be a hot topic as most would agree that without the resurrection of jesus there would be no christianity.
i am not so sure of that, but i am more sure that dr. gary habermas' minimal facts approach to the resurrection has no evidentiary basis.. here is a 22 minute video on the topic.
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Disillusioned JW
When I met Carrier in person I told him that Christianity existed before the first century CE - before the time that Jesus supposedly lived on Earth. That is because of what I had read and because of what Carrier said in his lecture about the emergence of ideas that later became identified with Christianity. Carrier was surprised by that idea of mine. He then said that Christianity (at least as people commonly think of it today) came to be when Paul combined the various ideas and preached the "Christ crucified" doctrine.
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Watchtower talking bad about other religions
by asp59 indo you remember the time when every watchtower article seemed like a boasting session?
how great watchtower was.
they we're the only one with holy spirit.
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Disillusioned JW
What makes the WT talking (and writing) bad about other religions especially bad is that now the WT is doing some of the things which the WT sharply criticized the other religions for doing!
The WT criticized the Catholic church for having "... an exalted hierarchy with the pope at its head" (See page275 of the WT book from 1951 called What Has Religion Done for Mankind?) Yet the WT has a hierarchy of assistants to ministerial servants, ministerial servants, elders, traveling overseers, and the governing body. The governing body now even claims to be the sole constituent of the "faithful and discreet slave"!
The WT used to criticize the Catholic church for having a religious order, but now the WT literally has a religious order!
The WT criticized the Catholic Church for practicing excommunication but the WT now directs JW elders to disfellowship many JWs (though the WT and the JW elders don't prevent ex-JWs and other non-JWs from partaking of the memorial emblems).
The WT criticizes Christendom for "flat rejection of the real kingdom of the Seed of God's woman" (see page 299 of the What Has Religion Done for Mankind? book) but it tells JWs that no more than 144,000 of all JWs who ever lived (not counting Christ) became part of the new covenant with Jesus Christ! The WT discourages JWs from believing they are part of the new covenant and born again (and born from above), despite what the Christian Greek Scriptures teach!
Gman2001, you are right in saying the following. "The claim that Jehovah chose them as his representatives...is a myth. Big claims require big proof and they have none." For example, so many of the WT's books make mythical claims regarding the significance of what happened to the WT in 1918 and 1919, not just to what they claim happened in heaven in 1914.
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Refuting the Alleged Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection
by truth_b_known inin the past few months there have been a few debates on this site over alleged evidence of the resurrection of jesus.
this can be a hot topic as most would agree that without the resurrection of jesus there would be no christianity.
i am not so sure of that, but i am more sure that dr. gary habermas' minimal facts approach to the resurrection has no evidentiary basis.. here is a 22 minute video on the topic.
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze, now I know why you made comment about Carrier and posted the link about him. I now know because a moment ago the starting image of a video by Carrier included in the post by thruth_b_known loaded onto my computer which has a slow internet connection.
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Jw's sending me invites and letters, I don't get it.
by Foolednomore infirst off, i have made it real clear with jw's my thoughts on being a jw.
i'm out, there is no coming back.. second, i'm on their " do not call list" .. so why now all of a sudden my mailbox is getting bombed 💣 by their memorial invites and letters?.
don't they follow their do not call list?
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Disillusioned JW
Foolednomore, I had thought I had read that you said that you didn't open the letters you received from the JWs, and that is why I wrote that you might find a personal email address in the letters if you read them. But now I see I was wrong to think that you said you didn't open the envelopes. Apparently when I read a post by truth_b_known quoting a portion of a post by stan livedeath, I later incorrectly thought the quoted phrase was by you instead.